ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1839
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Posted - 2014.11.17 23:03:42 -
[1] - Quote
Herateis wrote:I don't think I have seen anyone using gatling laser turrets or ac125 so far, and as far as I know DPS and volley damages are most important, so why do these smaller, faster firing guns exist in the game? Is it fair to say that it's a newbie trap, or that you're stuck with those guns if your fitting skills are poor? Why do turrets get better range and better damage at the same time? That seems like a winning combination especially with how prevalent MWDs, scrams, and webs are, which pretty much can keep someone at the right range.
"High damage, high range" comes at the cost of tougher fittings (lower tank and other stuff), worse tracking, more cap usage, or other assorted things. It's not a one-way choice; it's a trade-off. Sometimes fitting smaller guns is worth it if you can control the fight and break the other guy's bigger guns.
Herateis wrote:
The same goes for ammo. Why does everyone go for the biggest damage or longest range and avoid the midrange ammo that works best with the gun's tracking? It seems like even though there's should be some sort of penalties for long range guns' tracking which bring down the damage your ammo can do, people still prefer stuff like antimatter or multifrequency as opposed to lead or standard crystals. From looking at a side by side comparison, yes, these charges that are longer range because they dont nerf range do less damage, but they are more likely to hit for near their full damage continuously if gun tracking actually causes lower hit rates and lower damage when you do hit, when the enemy gets too close.
There are some design issues around ammo variety for short range guns. For example, going from Multifrequency to Standard means (ballparking, not real numbers) an increase from 3500m to 5000m range, but a 50% decrease in damage. Since that 1500m (42%) envelope gain isn't really worth the hugely reduced damage, everyone tells you to fit Multifrequency and deal with it. If you compare it to beam lasers though, that 42% gain is much larger. If you go from 13 km range (barely out of scram range) to 18.5 km, that may be a huge advantage in a fight, despite the loss in raw damage.
The same parallel applies for blasters/railguns and non-antimatter ammo, and autocannons/artillery and non-EMP/PP/Fusion ammo.
The situation of long range ammo being a bad choice isn't helped by the fact that the T2 ammos contain spectacularly good long range ammos for short range weapons (Scorch, Null, Barrage) that completely eclipse anything that long range T1 ammos can do on the same weapons at those ranges.
Herateis wrote:
So to sum up, how come extreme close range guns are so weak compared to the longer range guns in the same class, and why do people prefer to take -50% range for all that extra damage? Is it just plain better? I don't think I've seen many killmails where attackers had the faster firing, shorter range guns, or ammo that should work to have best hit rate for the gun's optimal and tracking.
It's because of how the metagame works. Your ammo choices for short range weapons boil down into 3 choices:
- T1/faction short range ammo - great damage at short range, little to no damage at long range.
- T1/faction mid-long range ammo - poor damage at all ranges.
- T2 long range ammo - poor damage at short range, good damage at long range.
Since range control is usually key to winning a fight, when you have range control you want to either pick option 1 or 3. Never 2.
As far as guns go, I should address your next point:
Herateis wrote:
I'm trying to figure out what's the best guns for destroyers and I'm seeing a pattern of avoiding these lighter guns and ammo that doesn't grant extreme damage for half the range. If anything it appears like the fast firing guns with short range are obsoleted by the longer range versions with ammo that cuts their range in half.
How come?
That's why you're not seeing small guns used. Destroyers have tons of fitting room compared to frigates, and they have massive tracking bonuses that make frigate-sized guns track much better. That nullifies both disadvantages of fitting bigger guns: bad fittings and bad tracking. What you're left with is guns with great range and damage, that will tear everything apart. There are very few instances where destroyers have to not fit the largest guns, and they usually involve very tanky fits, where the CPU/Powergrid is too tight to put big guns on.
If you look at frigate fits, and especially on frigates that have good non-pure-firepower roles (like being especially tanky, or fast, or having special ewar), you will more often see dual light pulse lasers or gatling pulse lasers instead of small focused pulse lasers, or 125mm/150mm autocannons instead of 200mm autocannons.
ISD LackOfFaith
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Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
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